Tag Archives: Seeker Friendly Church

Does the local church create a divide in family discipleship?

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Does the local church create a divide in family discipleship?

The exchange of dialogue is only helpful if that exchange has a point that is potentially beneficial to others. So while it is common in this blog and on the internet to criticize the practices in Christ’s church, this post will hopefully help as we consider our church methods.  I grew up in church as a pastor’s kid, and spent time as a youth pastor, so I’ve seen processes in church from ‘behind the scenes.’  And while that’s important, this post will go beyond my personal experience since, and ask questions in more of a sociological or anthropological expression.

Before moving ahead, I want to address the ‘karen‘ comments.  Since America is the number one country for single parenthood, it would be foolish to say every family that enters the doors of the local church are a mom, dad, two kids with a picket fence. So, the following post is in general, and any responsibilities for supporting discipleship to address non two parent families falls at the doorstep of the local church.   There are always exceptions, but they don’t disprove the rule.

So the premise is, “How Consumer Friendly Churches Create a Disciple Divide in Families.”

  1. Do we care?  In church ministry, what do we care about?  What is the point?  If the point is not biblical discipleship, then there is another point to our efforts in the local church.
  2. What are our methods for Christian discipleship? Scripture tells us to have order, so processes are biblical.  Doing church ‘messy’ which is a fad, is not biblical.
  3. How will we measure the effectiveness of the local church discipleship?

As Christ’s church, how important is the family unit?  Aside from Christ himself, the health of the family should be at the forefront of our discipleship efforts.  I grew up going to children’s church.  Since the children’s building was the original church building, it looked like a mini sanctuary with pews, a pulpit, piano.  And we had our children’s service in the same method as ‘big church.’  What I remember most were the songs we sang, such as Father Abraham. We also had Sunday School on Sunday and then during services like Sunday and Wednesday nights, kids would be in the main service with the adults. So that was my young experience with Christian discipleship.  Your’s was probably different.  Which is why we can’t depend on our individual experiences as proof of success in church discipleship.

So let us address the elephant in the room head on and look deep into his eyes and have an honest conversation.  When a family shows up for the Sunday main service that is to be taught by the pastor, what happens to the family?  As Christians, we say that family is important.  But do we help or hamper the family unit as a local church body?

Scenario #1 The kids go to their age appropriate program and the parents go to the main service that is geared towards them.

Scenario #2 The kids stay with their parents and there is a portion of the adult service that is geared towards the kids.”

A Christian brother of mine was complaining about some of the youths behavior, having to remove them often from the youth service because of their poor behavior.  I suggested that the parents of the ‘trouble makers’ be brought into the youth service so they could parent their children and see the bad behavior first hand.  After all, parents should parent.  Or do parents leave the discipleship of their children up to the local church , just as some leave the education up to the schools?  Proverbs 22:6 gives us the direction.  Parents are to parent the whole child, not subcontract certain sections of child development.  Parents using the local church service to take a break from their kids is the wrong approach and is unlikely to yield any lasting discipleship in their children.  Kids know what is going on.

So how does the local church help parents parent the whole child?

  1. The parents need to know the message their children are receiving.  The writing was truly one the wall at a church we attended when I saw a Christ-less false teaching on the builtin board being taught to young kids.  Do you know what your children are learning at church?  How do you know?  Do you ask?  Do you care? Do you have a strong enough theology to ask the right questions? What would you do if your children are being taught false doctrine?
  2. Is the overall messaging in the local church even biblical?  We know that the consumer friendly local church, especially those who adopt a business model of numerical growth, seek to make the ‘congregation’ happy.   If the adult service isn’t biblical, it is unlikely the approach to children’s church will be.
  3. Is the overall messaging in the local church even for the whole family? And is it seamless? For example;  If the adults learn about Jesus feeding the five thousand, are the kids learning the same in their dedicated message? If not, why not? How is the connection made between the two messages?

So as we return to the two scenarios, we can practically answer which one is better.  If the goal is to make disciples, then why does the local Christian church split the family up?  It can be argued that children learn at a different level than adults, and that is absolutely true.  But that begs the wrong question?   If our approach is to disciple kids on their level, and adults on another level, then what are we doing is doing individual discipleship instead of discipling the whole family. It can’t be any other way if the family is split and never discipled together.

OBJECTION: “But our children’s program is the best around and it the number one draw for people to come!”  I used to think that was important too.  When we were looking for a church, it was my first question, ‘what is your children’s program like?’  But I was asking the wrong question.  I get it, the children’s program that churches do on Sunday morning is a huge investment of time, staff, and money. What I wasn’t asking was, ‘ How does a church disciple my family?’

But what if the Sunday main adult service teaches on Jesus feeding the five thousand and the kids dedicated service does a message, isn’t that family discipleship?  It isn’t.  The family is separated in two different locations. So do we toss our children’s program? Is there another way that the whole family is discipled together at the local church?  After all, just like school education, the parents are ultimately responsible and should be able to reinforce what their children learn.

So the question still remains though; “does the local church create a divide in family discipleship”?  If the local church is not discipling the family unit together, the answer has to be yes.

OBJECTION: “The children won’t understand the pastor’s sermon?”  Well let’s return to Proverbs, who has the primary responsibility of teaching and training their children?  Parents.  As for the approach of the pastor’s teaching, a skillful pastor can adapt the message of the Gospel so even a child can understand. And especially since there are different levels of an education in adults, the simplest expression of the gospel is the best approach.  Not everyone studies hermeneutics.

We attend a Sunday service where the children are invited to stay in the main service.  The pastor will provide a special message to the children at the front.  There is also Sunday school that has a curriculum geared towards the children.  But the main service has the whole family.

What are the benefits to this?

  1. Modeling:  Kids get to see their parents behavior in church.  Kids will do what their parents are doing. If it is important to the parents, the kids will take note.
  2. Questions: When parents are properly taught, they can fill in the blanks when the kids need further instruction.  Again Proverbs 22:6
  3. The local church puts the emphasis back on the family, the support of the family, the focus is back on the parents.

OBJECTION:”Kids don’t behave in adult church.” Well, when will they learn? It is like getting a credit card, but not having credit to get it.  When kids don’t learn to behave in church, it becomes obvious when they get older.  They have to be removed from youth group because of their behavior.  The benefit of having children in church with their parents is parenting their behavior.

Having children in church is something I had to adjust to.  Babies crying, kids squirming is something that I had to work through so to speak.  And what I figured out is, going to church isn’t about me.  It’s about the body of Christ.

What is the problem we are trying to solve?  It is found in the premise, “How Consumer Friendly Churches Create a Disciple Divide in Families.”  The best scenario for family discipleship is to have a method for the local church to hold up the family as the best way to disciple the family itself.  Does the Sunday message need to change for that? If the local church doesn’t have a method for discipling the whole family, then yes.

Why is this important? Because kids are leaving the church.  And the over arching reason is that questions are going unanswered.  Why?  Because in the consumer friendly approach, the most kids get are bible studies on how to be a better person. Consumer friendly churches are asking their consumers on what the speak on, instead of teaching the whole counsel of scripture.  They avoid tough subjects since it will anger people and they may not come back. The goal in consumer friendly churches is to make customers happy.  Of course this is the case, the budget is large and spending money on children’s church set design costs.

Is children’s church bad?  Of course not.  Does it provide family discipleship, nope.   Does your local church have a way of discipling the whole family?  If not, why not?   It is the parents that have the primary responsibility for discipleship of their children.  Yes.  And having them in the main service the only way to do it.  Having only divisional discipleship is subpar and doesn’t benefit the whole family, it creates a divide in family discipleship.

But so what?  Going back to why kids leave the church.  Questions aren’t being answered.  The kids blame the church.  So here comes the anthropological part, if the teaching comes to the family at once, the family discusses it, then there is one message.

But that begs the question, what is the message?  If the church is answering the questions that provide an out for kids to leave the church, then if they do leave still, the church will have successfully discipled the whole family and kept the family, not the local church, at the center focus. Which is how God created mankind to begin with.

 

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Steven Davis is a well done preacher’s kid, musician, media producer, learning apologetic writer.

#apologetics #church #childrenschurch #seekerfriendlychurches #consumerfriendlychurches

 

Experiencing God in a Corporate Setting ? Messaging Matters

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Driving by this sign day after day which read “Experience God”, I thought to my self, ‘self, what does that mean?’  I mean it’s a sign that is in front of a building with the word ‘church’ in the name.  It’s a good size building being built and so I looked at some of the other messages of what I could find out about this church based on the messages and marketing signs.  And that will be the subject of this blog post. Messaging Matters.  And before I’m accused of nitpicking, message matters in our Christian testimony.  Words matter.  So I would like to explore this messaging.

At some point in this post, someone might say, well have you been to this church?  How can you judge it based on a few signs?  And of course I can’t.  It doesn’t matter if I go there or not. But if I did go there, it would not change what we will discuss during this time together.  So let’s discuss messaging, and we’ll start first with the big one that was the -rock in my shoe-.  “Experience God”

Experience God

Experiencing God Graphic

I’m guessing this is a rock concert, I actually purchased this off an image subscription. I have no idea what is from. :}

So using the Bible Gateway’s search feature and the phrase, ‘Experience God’, I couldn’t find any scriptures that talk about how to ‘experience God.’  What does that mean?

In Holy Scripture we do find a lot of examples of those who had experiences with God.  For example; the Egyptians experienced God as they drowned in the Red Sea.   Elijah experienced God as he was carried off in a chariot to the sky.   Adam and Eve experienced God’s judgement when He expelled them from the garden.  Balaam’s donkey experienced God when his mouth was opened and started to talk.  If a donkey can experience God, do I need a donkey experience?  What does it mean to ‘experience God’ and how is measured?  What is the proof?  What is the method?

If people are raising their hands, is that how you experience God?  What do we then say about this image at a rock concert?

So what about experience?  What are we to say?  To be honest, we are emotional creatures.  We love our experiences. Some people love roller coasters, some don’t.  Some love watching romance movies, some don’t.   Some people love to watch Rambo circa 1982 over and over and over again, some don’t.

This was a first for me, most churches show their service times. If we follow the logic of the marketing, then we have to assume that people will only experience God, whatever that means, on these three times. Do I sound snippy, nope, messaging matters. Words matter.

So let’s answer question #1:  What does it mean to experience God.

Answer: No idea. If we say our experience is based on us, then we have experienced us.  If we get goosebumps with the music at church, is that how we experience God?  When I wrote Emotion Doesn’t Validate Corporate Worship,  I still get goosebumps thinking about the title song from Moulin Rouge, ‘Come What May.’ In fact, I’m listening to it as I write.  :}  My goosebumps are an emotional reaction. 

A friend of mine told me how awesome their church is.  When I asked what was awesome about it, they said the music is just amazing.  I wonder if that is how one experiences God. Is it good music.

If you are profusely angry at me by now, I’ll understand. And while some of this writing is a bit tongue and cheek, the question remains, what does it mean to experience God at these three Sunday experiences (see sign)?  I have no idea.  Is everyone’s experience the same, is it different, are they experiencing God the same, or is it even the same god?  Unsure.  How is it all measured?

Is this guy experiencing God?

Within the mega-church movement, the building decor has become less religious, more secular, more secular visitor friendly. And let’s be honest, if the word church wasn’t on the bottom of this sign, you’d think this was some type of convention hall. May a new hotel. This trend is on purpose. If there were to have religious symbols, then there is a good chance someone might hold you to your presentation. For the sake of argument, if there was a statue of Mary, then someone might ask you if this church is Catholic.  But without any symbols, any historic church symbols, there is nothing to identify this setting as anything other than a non religious venue.  Something you might see in the the business world.  A type of corporate feel if you will.

Let’s talk about the corporate experience.  We know that experience is very important in today’s corporate environments. After all, you have to keep people happy.  We know that happy people are better workers. We’ve all been to corporate events, they have marketing inside and outside the events, giveaways, maybe live music, door freebies, have greeters who are assigned to different portions of the visitors experience, then you hit the coffee bar, maybe eat a danish, from there it’s off to learn about —insert theme here —.  All of this experience is to make your time memorable.  It’s important that you have a good time.

For good measure, here are – 4 Tips for Planning Corporate Event Entertainment

1. Focus on Creating Memorable Event Experiences

2. Keep an Eye on the Budget

3. Choose Thoughtful Corporate Entertainment

4. Prioritize Your Audience

Let’s move on.

Experience Purpose

Using that pesky Bible Gateway tool again, I couldn’t find the phrase ‘Experience Purpose’ in the Bible.  I know, I know, it’s a modern term.  So let’s chew on the hypothetical. For people who go to these experiences, does someone tell them what their purpose is?  Is it like Elevation Church that has massive volunteer recruiting for the purpose of doing tasks at the church?  Or is it like that false teaching of Rick Warren’s Purpose Driven Life?  I hope not.

Does one have to go to this church to experience purpose?  Or could it be as simple as loving our neighbor which Jesus tells us to do.   What if the purpose I get during this experiential-church conflicts with some other purposes I have already? Which do I choose?  Yes, I’ve gone into silly mode.  And that’s ok, because again, messaging matters, and according to this sign, I can ‘experience purpose’ if I go there. What about the people down at the Baptist church, do they have a purpose?…ok, ok.  I’ll stop.

Experience Making a Difference

Now this message is great! Anyone who sees this, understands that these people are making a difference for the environment.  They are planting stuff and that definitely is making a difference. No plants, no breath ya know.  I know a lot of church organizations have become very environmentally aware.  And since the millennials generation (who by number is surpassing the Boomer generation) is concerned about making a difference in society; this sign about -making a difference- and it’s push for environmental issues is pretty good messaging. #bravo

Experience Freedom

Freedom?  From what?  Unsure.  What does that mean? If I were to infer from thin air, I’d say it has something to do with the freedom found in Christ, freedom from sin.  At least that’s what I’m hoping.  But that requires someone to repent.  So freedom through repentance?  And yes, I know my implications are running on fumes.  I’m just trying to understand this sign. I do wonder if you call the church office if they know what this sign means.  Either way, the king in this sign again is ‘experience.’  That word is pretty important as it is repeated over and over.

The Wrap

So what?  So what’s the big deal?  I’m glad you asked.

No where in Holy Scripture are we taught to ‘experience God.’  And if you go for the experience, you’ll have to go back for it time and time again.  Possibly, you’ll start to equate being a Christian with your experience.  And that’s narcissism and not Christianity.   If we are driven by experience, then anything less than our last experience will just not do.  The dopamine highways in our brain always want more, something new , just like video games, porn and other visual experiences that bombard our brains.

-What you win folks with you have to do and more to keep them.- So if people are coming to a building for an experience, then you’ll have to keep switching it up to keep the dopamine rolling on different highways in our brainage. (yes, I know that’s not a word)

But the bigger question is, ‘why is experience the king here?’  Why isn’t Jesus the hero of this marketing?  Maybe Jesus is taught here, maybe it’s an ‘almost Jesus’ -experience-.  Unsure.  And yes, I could attend, but why, the folks at this church seem to think ‘experience’ is the most important if we judge by the marketing.  I’m supposed to come for the experience. That’s emotionalism, that’s hype.

Finally, God is everywhere, omnipresent.  My purpose is given to me to love on others because of God’s grace to me. My freedom is found in Christ.  And making a difference, well we can do that anywhere.  No secret sauce can be found on the other side of these road signs, but I’m sure the experience is something else for sure.

So what? What’s your beef?  Because message matters.  Words matter.  With so many ‘churches’ moving away from orthodoxy to experienced based church, it should be a warning to us when a church bases so much on ‘experience’, something so subjective, something that is so focused on us. We should want Christ more than experience.  It is in the Gospel of Jesus Christ that we have all we need.   It is the Gospel that we can hope through good experiences and bad experiences in life.  It is also in the Gospel that we can judge any experience we have.

Does this church preach the unadulterated Gospel of Jesus Christ, one of repentance through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross for all of our sins?  I dunno.  All I know is that based on this marketing, it’s Experience that is the most important message they want us to know.  And that’s no reason to go, not when there is so many theme parks around an hour away.

 

Steven Davis is a well done preacher’s kid, musician, media producer, learning apologetic writer.

 

 

#apologetics #experiencegod #experiencepurpose #theheightschurch #experiencefreedom #makingadifference